I posed a question earlier this week, is it possible to design a mmorpg that is not restricted by genre. Or are genres there for a specific reason – branding, e.g. Dungeons and Dragons, Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft = fantasy and well known IP’s. Therefore success.
Now I think it is possible to design a mmorpg that covers multiple genres, scifi, modern horror, fantasy etc. and be unique enough to be a success based on the fact that there is no mmorpg to date that can cover all genres. Hence the birth of the theoretical mmorpg blog Strangelands.
Imagine, if you will, exploring a warped twisted world war 1 battlefield, down in the trenches thick with green gas and under attack. The object being to rescue a girl trapped there, however the enemies attacking are not German troops but broken and twisted abominations of German troops, …. and the next session you are in high fantasy defending a besieged castle from a dragon, and the next walking the sewers under Manhaten searching for rift in space that is letting unimaginable horrors into the world ….
Get the idea. good.
To answer the question then, yes you can do it but what be the cohesion between the environments, how would you make it ‘acceptable’ to be in these environments with out being say a time traveler which falls into the genre sci-fi.
Glad you asked as this is the heart of Stranglands what makes it unique and workable in theory.
Strangelands, is the never never, the unseen world. The world we all go to but never remember. A place where horrors stalk us, unicorns stampede over open plains, a place of nightmares and dreams. You guessed it yet ? Yes the dreamworld … the sandman etc A place where reality departs and time and space are non factors.
Think about it for a moment, can you imagine doing an instance in a world based on the works of Escher or Dali, hmmm got your minds imagining yet what sort of places as a designer you could design …
Now I have a brief background of how you get to be there and why … coma patients … but what I would like from my fellow re more expereined bloggers is give up your thoughts on such concepts. Would this work as a mmorpg ?, is it possible to by multi genre and yet be unique ?, what do you think about the idea .. want to elaborate on it.
I mean the whole point behind Strangelands other than for me to express some views is to get you the bloggers to build a theoretical mmorpg based on your thoughts and ideas that you have been debating about within the frame work of what I laid out above. Now each week I will put up my ideas as well and see where we go ….
P.s. Thanks to Cuppy for the idea
Isn’t this basically the same premise behind the pen and paper game RIFTS? Ley lines pop open and all possible realities sort of cross. You have fantasy alongside cyberpunk and undead battling steam-powered golems. Meanwhile, CIA agents and futuristic robots duke it out with lich-sorcerers and vampires.
And yeah, I could see it as an MMO. Probably skill based, as classes would be an issue.
Actually non rifts like, but can see your point.
Maybe clarify, Frame work is that you are in the dream world, there are pockets of reality created by those who rule the dream verse and serve as the realms for where those who walk the dream worlds, players etc can meet, hang out, before heading out to ‘instanced’ places bassed on the quests etc.
Think maybe guildwar hubs. For example one could have a place called ‘the station’, sort of victorian train staion, but with mixes of realites here and there, victorian looking starbucks (advertising), holographic terminals…. add in all possible types of people there, fairies, scifi, orge, alien etc
Since this is the dreamworld any appearence or appearence the player wishes to be could be there.
However would you think a rifts verse would be better suited, being that it is a already exisitng ip … so back to the question, Is genre a limiting factor in designing a mmorpg … ?
[…] another not-so-pointless comment, I wanted to bring everyone’s attention to a cool concept being discussed by Pixie Stix on Stranglelands. I quote: I mean the whole point behind Strangelands […]
One mmo covering several genres has been something I’ve often thought would be a neat idea. I always envisioned it as some sort of time travel game. And not necessarily historically accurate, such as back in time to Transylvania to battle vampires or gunning it out in Tombstone. And since no one really knows the truth of Atlantis, that would be wide open to be left to imagination.
Realistically though, I would assume it would be very costly to do this with all the different mob species types involved. But I can still dream 🙂
Time travel is something that had crossed my mind as well however i had always considered time travel sci fi, and not wanting to be specific to one genre I crossed that out.
However would you consider time travel as sci fi or something else …..
Eh, it wouldn’t be any more expensive than any other MMO, I’d think, assuming that the total number of models was still pretty similar. You pay an artist the same whether he’s working on a manticore or a robot. Assuming each zone was a different pocket of reality, it’s totally doable.
I would tend to agree with you Aspendawn, in a normal Mmorpg the genre defines the type of models to be designed.
In a Mrorpg desinged using alternative realites there is not neccesarily a restirction on usuing one type of models in one type of reality.
However would this type of disassociation from the norm be detrimental to the player or there immersion in the game as they cant identify with the location and creatures there.
I actually hadn’t thought of it as a sci fi game, but I guess it depends on how it’s packaged. Perhaps the druids are using Stonehenge to portal. From that perspective, I don’t have sci fi thoughts in my head.
And as far as immersion, if I’m going in knowing this is the basis of the game, I’m just not seeing a problem identifying with the various locations. But I guess that depends on how the world is presented to you and what your role in it is.
The concept kind of reminds me of an old Pacesetter RPG game called “Sandman”. It’s kind of a “dream world” concept… the setting changes around the players as they resolve plot points, trying to figure out everything from what is truly going on to who they are (the game starts the players with no memory of their past life). One moment you can be in a scene from Casablanca, the next you’re dodging dinosaurs, and the next you are riding pegasi to reach a oracular shrine on a mountaintop.
Time travel that includes alternate realities could easily include a wide array of genres. Also, there would be no reason that the mechanics of the time travel couldn’t be mystical in origin, as opposed to technological or mechanical. Many time travel RPGs, for example, incorporate a variety of “styles” of travel into a single game, from magical items and mental/psionic abilities to weird science/Jules Verne contraptions and far-future high-tech vehicles/equipment.
Another possible mechanism/overall rationale is that suggested by the old series “Sliders”. Could be an interesting setting…
To answer the original question, I think it would work, although the “massive” part of the equation might be somewhat different than what we usually think of.
The thing that stands out for me at present is that the setting potentially lacks places for people to congregate. There is no obvious potential “lobby”, if you will, where players who are looking for groups, looking to trade “equipment” (would there be equipment of that kind?), can get together.
Not that there couldn’t be such places defined, obviously… an Escher-esque city scape, with people walking up and down walls, even upside down in various places, could be an option, for example. Just something to consider, I guess.
[…] couple of things that are really just one thing but I’ll mention them separately. Strangelands has a sort of “Design an MMO” thing going on. This week is a topic about mixing genres, […]
What Aspendawn is suggesting sounds more like Dr Who, pretty cool IMO as I loved both versions of that show. (except the new dr. who in the second season)
I cant help but think of Gumby when I started reading this until I got to the part about coma patients. I would find it easier to grasp as a player in a MMO if all of the other players got to this world in a more feasible way. Thats a ton of coma patients if you get my drift. Maybe something along the same macabre line such as global apathy due to pollution/corruption/war and a dream of a better time leads to a underground technological advancement that allows the people to share dreams and past experiences.
You could rationalize quests as people wanting help reliving choices they made or events they lived through. This is kind of getting into a realm that reminds me of American McGee’s Alice.
I love this discussion though.
Will have to check out American McGee’s Alice as not familiar with it.
The sandman is essentailly the type if realm i was thinking off, as you can have any type of environment with odd twists to that realm with out really breaking any genres. This is the dream realm so anything goes …. and to be honest was the only environement i could think off that would be able to pull it off.
Now as brackishwater mentioned getting there believably is something I was a little stuck on.
I think this is probably one of the most important key points to any game, how and why are you there ? and how does this pertain to the overall story line, if there is to be one …
I like it. It’s a tough concept, but a cool one.
Perhaps you could provide a better sense of continuity and character development by giving each player item and skill a counterpart in each realm. It wouldn’t be easy, but I think it’s doable. For example, mounts:
Fantasy Realm — Horse
WWII Realm — Combat Vehicle
Sci-Fi Realm — Spaceship
Victorian Gothic Realm — Carriage
Modern Horror Realm — Car
So… If you buy a horse while in the Fantasy Realm, you’ll own a carriage next time you enter the Gothic Realm and a car next time you enter the Horror Realm. These are just general categories, of course, so it would actually be more specific than that. A clydesdale warhorse in the Fantasy realm might translate into a medium M4 Sherman tank for WWII and a Mack truck for the Horror Realm. A Fantasy Realm pack mule, on the other hand, might translate into an APC (Armored Personel Carrier) for WWII and a van for Horror.
Of course, it’s a hell of a lot harder to apply that sort of system to skills. But the difficulty there may actually help, because it might be more interesting if the skills were only loosely related between realms. For example, all of the following would loosely fall under a “Stun” skill category:
Fantasy Realm — Tangling Roots spell
WWII Realm — Flash Grenade
Sci-Fi Realm — Hologram Double (distraction)
Victorian Gothic Realm — Holy Flare (a light that wards off evil)
Modern Horror Realm — Molotov Spread (a spill of burning alcohol forms a barrier)
What do you think?
Defernatly think Aaron you have the right idea, if you were to design a multi genre game it would be the little things, such as what you outline that would make the game and more importantly its the little things that people remember. This also could be done with transistioning from realm to realm, Leave one realm to go out on a quest via a steam train and arrive in say a edwardian france via a horse drawn carriage ….
I think your opening question, ‘is it possible to design a mmorpg that is not restricted by genre’ is possibly fulfilled by Second Life. Whether you regard Second Life as a game is another matter though.
In terms of the kind of dimensional aspect of crossing worlds / timelines etc. Clive Barker’s novel “Imajica” is a an example that comes to mind, I’d suggest you give that a read if you haven’t as that has a really nice concept of parrallel yet inter-dependant worlds seperated only by perception. It’s a theme that has cropped up in Barker’s stuff a few times. I won’t say more in case you decide to read it 🙂
What I would question though is the potential appeal of such a game. For me a big part of MMOs is the sense of a second world in which I can spend time with an alternative community. My most fulfilling MMO moments have been in Star Wars Galaxies where players are allowed and encouraged to build their own towns and cities and set up their own supply chains and trade etc. It all got killed with the NGE update though really.
Personally unless there was a good knot to hold the reasoning of multiple times/genres/etc together in the meta-world, some form of interdependence, I wouldn’t be able to regard it as a second home really. But it depends on whether your thinking about MMORPGs or MMOs like Planetfall.
a sense of a second world is something that ‘the dream world’ could establish very easily, having central hubs ‘towns’ where the community gathers and interacts before heading out to the dream worlds.
Its at this point where the character becomes the continuity between the hubs and the pocket realities, they develop the story
As for building player towns this would be something that would be a riot to do, no holds barred pocket realities where the laws of physics / time dont exisit. Each one could be very unique and I’m sure with the right tools would lead to some amazing designs.
found an intersting lil post over at gamasutra
“Do you feel that the opportunities that exist in the MMO market have resulted in overcrowding?
If you mean genre overcrowding, then yes. Look at the saturated fantasy genre; there is clear overcrowding there. Players can typically only have active one, or at most two active MMO game subscriptions. There just isn’t time for additional subscriptions. According to MMOGchart.com, in June of 2006 the fantasy genre accounted for 93.5% of all major MMOs.
If you are referring to player overcrowding, then no. The market is expanding as more and more players are becoming familiarized to MMOs, and who are gaining access to play the games – such as gaining broadband access when they previously lacked it. The upside of potential players is huge and is only limited by our ability in the development community to make appealing games for them to want to play.”
So there could be hope out there for a multi genre game
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