Well I’m back. I thought I would start off with something small to get back into the swing of things.
In an unamed beta I’m currently playing they have an option for a hardcore mode, that is to say you create your character and play through the game as you would normally. The kicker is when you die your character dies and is gone for good, back to the drawing board with you …. now I dont usually subscribe to this type of hardcore mode but this is beta so I thought i would give it ago. Wow … what a blast it is, really puts you on edge and makes you think statergy more than in softcore mode. Its like a whole new game …
Now with all things there are some perks and disadvatages to the hardcore mode that I have seen …. random disconnects can play havoc on your nerves let alone the life expectancy of your character. A bad pug can spell the end of dreams for ultimate recogniztion for Mr. hardcore character and it would seem to promote soloing more as to avoid asshat players and pug woes and not to forget the biggest one, once your dead you are dead, no take backs, no apologises, its over and its final ….
However saying that the perks defernatly out weigh the disadvantages, fame and recognition being the biggest advantage, imagine reaching the cap of wow in hardcore mode, talk about a milestone. Better loot to compensate the trials of hardcore mode, always a nice bonus and to be honest a necesity to compensate the risks involved. The shear thrill, adreneline rush of this gaming style. Oh and its addicitive …
Now why did I bring this up, well I was wondering how viable this style of gaming would be in conventional mmo’s ? could it be an alternative gaming style to raiding ? and why has none of the big name mmo’s latched on to this idea and added it.
Personally I see hardcore mode as a very viable addition to all conventional mmo’s, it really dose not change how the game is played by others, or really only effects the player playing in this mode. Could it be an answer to raiding, no but certainly a good alternative or even a good compliment to raiding. Would really add a new level of playing a mmo you are either burned out on or really want a challenge.
So why hasnt current mmo’s really added this option to there mmo’s, no clue to be honest, I wonder if its just not seen as an option or been fully explored before. Either way I like it and would like to see more games pick up this option. If you ever have a chance to try it, go do it, the rewards out weigh the disadvantages, more importantly it can breath new life in to your experience of an mmo
What do you think ?
I have not tried any game that has that. It probably works for certain types of players, but I am not sure I would be one of them.
Generally I do not play to get to the highest level – that is not a goal of mine and rather something that happens if I play the game long enough. So I do not think this playstyle would give much.
And for grouping I am more interested in a fun nice group rather than the most effective group. This playstyle do seme to encourage maximizing and specializing your group roles in rather static groups.
Would it show on you if you are playing in this mode? If it does I am sure there would be players that will try to do their best to get you killed, training mobs or whatever it may take (in a PvE environment).
Permadeath has always been an interesting concept. On almost every MMO, there’s at least one thread about having a “hardcore” server where permadeath exists.
I would like to try it in a system where you got to pass along some of your dead character’s xp and items to your next character, a descendant of the first. You would have a kind of family history feel to things and wouldn’t completely be losing out on everything (you’d get that xp and some items). I would be interested to see how I’d like it in this type of setup.
I think for most people however (myself probably included), permadeath is just not an option. For someone to play for literally hundreds of hours progressing their character, and to lose everything *poof*, just sucks. So I think for it to work there would have to be some continuity, some connection with the next character you create.
Think your idea of passing on a little exp to the next character is a really good idea Kevin. Would atleast ease the death blow.
As for time invested I compleatly understand, however the risk vs reward things plays a big role here and the sheer challenge of trying to survive by playing this way is great fun.
It might be a good play style for a group of friends or a guild that is very supportive.
However out in pug land the possibility for failure goes up 10 fold, but then that is what people like … a serious and tough challenge …
Hey Pix. I’m in there, too.
JoBildo on the beta boards, FYI.
Curious to hear your thoughts on the game as a whole, e-mail me, bud.
will do Bildo, think Aaron is there too … which reminds me got to email him as well he he
Yep, I’m there too. =) My forum name is swampdevil.
If you’re interested in the possibility of permadeath in MMOs, I strongly recommend reading up on a game that never made it to release, called Trials of Ascension. It combined a life-counter system (you can die so many times before permadeath) with an artifact system (sacrifice your final lives to leave an artifact named after your player to be discovered and used by others) and a rich, dynamic world full of unpredictable dangers and RvR gameplay.
I’m hoping to eventually build something like it through Metaplace, with a similar variety of non-humanoid character options.
bah! blocked by the company firewall for that ToA link.
Sounds interesting though im kinda Kevin on this and with my time being precious to me, I would be less inclined to continue with a game if I had list my character after playing for 60 hours.
Give me an option like a descendant system or a cloning function and I could see myself partaking in more dangerous encounters. If its the black and white issue of death then I’m afraid I would just be a scaredie cat.
BTW, Welcome back Pixie!
lol @ kinda kevin quote … think that will be my new phrase, no more leroy jenkins, I’m now kinda kevining it, but in all seriousness you do raise a good point and I think this is probably the biggest stumbling block for people who generally see time invested / vs reward as a major turn off to permadetah.
A descendent system would, as everyone has mentioned be a suitable solution to tempt people to play permadeath. However would that really qualify as being a hardcore mode ?, maybe that would be something in between, a softcore mode.
I think that a pure hardcore mode is something that only a few can ‘cope with’ it certainly gets the heart beating and can be stressful, but survivng to fight another day after taking on unfathomarible odds is one ‘hell’ of a rush (theres a joke in there somewhere for those beta players)
It think it certainly would work in an mmo providing there are options, normal mode i.e. pve players, softcore mode and hardcore mode. As long as the rewards for each mode reflect the risk involved it would make for an intersting game …
forum name : weirdfysh
I tried sending you a message on the forum, but it couldn’t find you. You probably have messages disabled, like I did until a minute ago. That’s apparently the default setting… you have to check a box to receive messages (strange).
ammendment forum name is PixieStyx
On a note about perma-death in this game, it’s not your typical MMO. You won’t necessarily be losing hundreds of hours of play, and the devs say there’s more than just “poof!” you’re gone when you die. Like some sort of ghost form you can take around the world and show off how high you got before dying.
Not sure that it’s in yet, but we’ll see.
I think it is probably something that is workable in a game like Hellgate: London, but I have my doubts about applying that concept as is to the MMOGs of today.
not sure why you would have doubts as to applying to mmog’s of today Sente. it dosnt effect you as a player if someone is willing to play at this higher level of game play and if the content is the same the only person taking the higher risk and receiving the higher rewards e.g. high % of rarer drops for that person. is the hardcore player. If there is also the option for softcore mode as well then you would essentially have 3 ways of playing the game, and 3 possible repeatable ways of playing a game …
What I meant was that I don’t think it would be a particuarly popular choice in regular MMOGs, not enough to warrant an inclusion of such a feature. But it may be more popular to try out in a game like Hellgate.
It could probably also work out in a game like Dungeon Runners.
I think it would be something that the design of the game should cater for from the start for it to blend in well.
In current MMOGs one could of course do the cheap version first by just publishing top 10 lists on players with least number of deaths above a certain level. I imagine that it would be part adrenaline rush and part bragging ability that would drive people.
Now, for regular MMOGs if people want to do it primarily for bragging that could probably easily be handled through some planned power leveling with little actual risk involved.
How then to distinguish those from the people that really has worked their way up the hard way? And would you really want the top end be something you could only reach after 100s of hours in that case? I think it would need a bit faster cycle and better support to avoid “cheating”.
you got a very valid point regarding cheating / power leveling Sente and that would be a major problem. I guess traditional grp play would stop high lvls grouping with low lvls as no exp would be gained. However there is always a work around that some one would find. So I think you are right with a mmog having to be desinged from the ground up to include this style of play.
As for who is in hardcore mode, I guess a little flag next to name or a different color for there name would suffice.
Great points Sente
Mmm… Hardcore mode.
That’s actually one of the biggest perks I’m looking forward to in the “unnamed beta” referenced in this post. I loved it in Diablo II, and at different times when I would get bored with WoW, I sort of enacted my own (unsuccessful, level 18)version of it… but we won’t talk about how big of a nerd I am.
Personally, I think having experience or items chain (even a nominal amount) from one HC character to the next would be a negative thing. But I do agree that for it to have much success in a real MMO, there needs to be some sort of recognition for players who thrive in HC play. In the “unnamed beta”, how cool would it be for statues of fallen HC characters to be built in common areas? And what if the game tracked game metrics (# of potions used, # of trash mobs killed, # of bosses killed, and of course… what monster offed you?) to be displayed with the statue upon inspection.
Beyond that, imagine an account level exclusive last name to be attached to all of your characters. Everyone knows that the statue they’re staring at is based off of one of your creations. Maybe it’s just me, but I think it would be effing awesome. I’m a bit of an egotist though.
The problem with that sort of recognition, is that just like in any other high-end reward in an MMO, given enough time it will become commonplace. There would be thousands of statues, lessening their value.
Anyway, just thought I’d throw my 2 cents out there on the subject. First time reader to this blog, so far I like it
welcome Stimpicus, you raise a great idea with the last name of a character being available only to hc mode players. Certainly would differentiate normal mode from hc mode if they were the only ones to have them. It would certainly fit into a majority of mmo’s with out the need to change mcuh. Providing the mmo was built fromt he ground up with this being one of the extras for the hc player. Statues would be great as well, however the problem would be as you correctly stated the number that would be appearing.
Could be cool if have a hall of heros and statues of the characters are changed as the next hc player reaches higher achievement level that you did before your death … great points so far I like the idea so far …
Chronicles of Spellborn is doing something with the statue approach, don’t rememeber what the criteria was for getting a statue, but I think it was top ranks in PvP arena fights and the first player(s) to kill some PvE bosses and things like that.
At least for the area part the statues would be temporary, since it would depend on who was the to dog at a particular time.
There was some idea similar to that in City of Heroes before it was released as I recall, but it was scrapped for some reason.
Dang, I hate it when game developers steal my ideas before I come up with them. Wendy’s totally did it with The Baconator, too.
hardcore….