Whilst the topics here simmer along here with some great discussion. I thought I would give you an update of where we seem to be at with regards to the ongoing discussions:
- So far it would appear that a multi genre Mmorpg is something that could be feesible.
- The character the player is playing needs to be the focal point to keep the player grounded as the environments change.
- The story needs to be very strong to establish and connect the player to the games background.
Some very interesting points have been brought up and I think today I would like to highlight one made byRyan. A topic that deserves its only little spot in the lime light
“So, maybe it’s a problem of the game “fantasy”/”role-playing” genre not being quite caught up with the book and gaming genre which spawned it?”
Essentailly he is saying that Mmorpgs seem to falling behind the curve in regards to developing the environments and characters that inhabit these worlds.
(Usuing my post response)
Ryan is correct in that modern writers / games are leagues ahead of the mmorpg world, not just in story but in developing a believable background that you feel comfortable with. The question is how would you bring this to the mmorpg genre ?
Personally I’m not sure, however I think one step forward is placing the player of the game in a situation / environment that they have personal experience with and yet can very easily add ‘fantasy’ elements to it without going way out there to a point where it feels wrong….
I guess unconciously I had addressed this with the idea of Strangelands being set in a dream world. We all have dreams and have a sense of connection to them and since they are dreams adding fantasy elements etc to them is not to out of the ordinary for us.
However that would be just one small part of the puzzle to bring a mmorpg up to par with modern fantasy stories …. characters and there roles would be one part, what other parts I dont know
You spoke earlier about a central point of meeting and also the issue of clashing races with realms, I just have a little on this.
The nexus you speak of seems to be the most critical of elements here. To me, this determines how exactly the rest of the world or game interacts with the player. By choosing to have a nexus, you are abandoning the idea of progression through ages or dreams but instead replacing it with a feeling of entering and returning. To explain this a bit further, the nexus and encounters would both be in the dream state.
You could preserve the idea then that anyone can truly be anything here in the nexus and therefore validate you response of “Why can’t I be an elf?” Just create a palatable reason why we are there in the first place. A merger of dreams of a large amount of people would have to happen because of either an evolution of species, cataclysmic event or fantasy backstory. I think you are asking for help with the last of these as evolution and worldwide events are somewhat easier to create.
If instead you are suggesting to create these dreams as realms or zones, and abandoning the notion of a nexus, I can see why someone may be apprehensive about taking a “high fantasy” avatar through a world that has been previously know to not have these races present. You would probably see a natural tendency for players to associate with zones that match their avatar because it would be the most comfortable for them. Hence, Cuppy’s response. The nexus would be important to prevent this division.
On the other hand (third hand here), if the nexus is not an actual dreamstate but the waking place of the player (town, island, world) again, you just need to create an understanding of how these players then link up in dreams. This brings you back to the arguement of why an elf is in WWII France…. sigh.
If you wanted to get REALLY crazy, you could try doing away with zones entirely and mixing the elements of all those genres into one borderless world. It seems insanely hard to do, but I bet it’s possible. =)
Anyway, as to creating a background players are comfortable with…
I think the main reason fantasy is such a popular genre is because it’s so conducive to allegory. Allegory could be applied to all of those zones, and help secure an impression of realism and stability. Basically, you make sure that every unrealistic object is related to something real and familiar. It’s what Freud called the uncanny: something that’s simultaneously strange and familiar.
And the more crossover of meaning between zones, the better. A villain in the WWII realm may have no obvious resemblance to some inhuman beast in the fantasy realm; but if they both act in a way that clearly makes them representative of some basic idea (like an obsession that leads them to forget their original values and doom their followers), the player may perceive the two as part of one story. The more common that situation is in the game, the more likely the players are to make the connection.
Very interesting point Aaron will have to look at this some more but I think you are right about it. Mmorpgs seem to be missing something and that maybe one of the things that bring them up to par to fantasy stories.
Its the strangely familiar that helps set the tone to the expereince …
“The more common that situation is in the game, the more likely the players are to make the connection.”
Another great point and I really like this concept and is certainly one that needs to followed when thinking about multi genre games.
So if the npc protagonists are identifiable through there actions as opposed to there appearence then I would infer that a system based on opposing factions would play a large part in this system …. However good vs evil has been done to death … might be interesting to bring a political conflict into play … not sure how well that has been done before
One of the main reasons the “pure good vs pure evil” model has always been so successful is that it’s a luxury we rarely experience in real life. Everybody wishes life was so simple; that we would always know who our enemies and friends are, and that our enemies are nothing like us.
With moral uncertainty comes frustration, in games as in real life. Players rarely care about NPCs as deeply as they care about real people, but the knowlege that “I screwed up” or “I don’t know what to do” still creates tension.
Tension is good, but should be moderated. I think the best option for a game is to have a mix of pure goods/evils and shades of grey. Besides, sometimes pure examples clear our judgement about “grey” decisions.
very true aaron just bouncing the idea around if there is a possible alternative to good vs evil, maybe a lot of grey that uses our own experiences to make the right decision.